tv MSNBC Live MSNBC February 10, 2011 6:00pm-7:00pm EST
[ male announcer ] we know all about diamonds. together we'll find the perfect gift this valentine's day. ♪ you don't know [ male announcer ] that's why only zales is the diamond store. a man can only try... and try...and try. [ male announcer ] honey nut cheerios tastes great and can help lower cholesterol. bee happy. bee healthy. ♪ welcome back to our continuing coverage oft crisis in egypt. hosni mubarak has transferred power to his vice president, but he's staying in the country, and for the thousands of protesters in the streets of cairo, it's too little too late. joining me now from tahrir
square is ron allen. what is it like to be there when history get s stuck in the door? >> it feels a little frightening quite honestly, chris. when the crowd exploded with anger, it was a situation that felt very vol it. we weren't quite sure what was going to happen. people were pushing and shoving. they were trying to get out of the square, they were trying to do something, just something physical to vent their fury and their disappointment and their frustration. the people who have been there now for more than two weeks really felt like they were on the verge of something tonight. there was anticipation that tomorrow was going to be a huge day of protests. when word started trickling around the square that he was going to make a major address tonight, some people let themselves believe this might be the resignation they were hoping
for when it didn't happen, hopes were just dashed and crushed and people were just angry. they felt betrayed. that was a word we heard a lot. betrayal. they felt they were just being played and taken for fools, if you want. and the transfer of power, whatever it's called, to the vice president, people just see that as another guise, another typical way that mubarak has maintained his power here for so long by just manipulating the reins of power. even though he says he's transferred his power, people still see him there as the president. they still see him as being in charge in some way. they will not believe that it is over until there is a clear tangible visible break and he leaves the scene in some way. not necessarily leaving the country, but really leaving the scene in some tangible way. now there's a lot of concern about what might happen here tomorrow, that pro and anti-mubarak forces might clash.
people are determined to stay in the square and take to the streets in huge numbers tomorrow, friday. chris? >> let's talk about the power of the people we're looking at. we have these excellent pictures from nbc and from aljazeera as well, watching the progress today. people might not have as much power as they want, but they've certainly got power. they have the power to get mubarak to say i'm not running for re-election this september. then he finally said even my son who was carrying my dreams, he's not running. then today he says i'm going to relinquish the power of my presidency to the v.p. so there is a step by step confirmation of the power on streets. so they know they have power. tell me how you put that together with they don't get what they want, exactly. >> well, part of the problem is that with each step they bushed
and pu and pushed and pushed and got concessions, what seem to be concession. but so many of these things are on papering they're not tangible. for example, a dismantling of the state of emergency martial law here that's been in place for so long. that has not happened. the foreign minister and others have said cat gorically, how can i do this when there's some 70,000 prisoners ou on the streets, but people would like to see tangible steps of the dismantling of this state of emergency that allows the police to round up people, hold them without charge indefinitely. and basically operate a police state. people want to see the parliament dissolve. they want to see that sort of thing happen in a profound, tangible way that lets them know that things are changing here. they have not seen that. short of that, they're hearing promises, they're hearing concessions. they're hearing things they don't believe are ever going to happen and tonight is going to
validate in many people's minds when they see the vice president move into the position in words of the president, this is confirmation of more of the same. that mubarak might make some sweeping jes kmur but at t-- gee but at the end of the day, the regime is still in place. >> one of the bad things about our country is that people are so well armed, you might argue, one thing i noticedn't a the people of egypt, they're not armed people. it seems like such a profoundly unnecessary thing to say. that crowd is not walking around carrying weapons. there's no rushing the police stands or the tanks. there's knob really trying to incite a revolution. dupg that might ever come out of the crowd you're looking at? or is the crowd just not that kind of people?
>> well, the people in the square have taken pride in the fact that this has been, they say, a nonviolent, peaceful protest. they -- and you're right. there are not a lot of guns in the streets. we don't see a lot of that. at checkpoint where is police were taking weapons from people, in some places they were taking clubs and knives and weapons of that order. i have not seen a lot of guns in the country since we've been here in a lot of places. and that's a good observation on your part. and again, people pride themselves it is on what they see as being patient, being gradual, being somewhat passive. and they've only retaliated, they believe, with rocks and stones when -- and petrol bombs, when they were attacked. there were thiimes in the squar when things were bloody or brutal. there are heavier weapons here that can be deployed on both sides, but at this point we
haven't seen that. i don't want to predict that, but this is just a volatile situation, chris. i think people were really stunned by what happened in the square tonight, people here tor hear mubarak speak. and now things are more peaceful in the square. and people are just trying to digest what happened. what did he say? what happened? this is not what they were expecting. >> i hope they stay with it. i was thinking about our own country, before we get into any kind of criticism of another country, it took us five weeks of heavy reporting and a lot of fighting to resolve who won florida electoral votes a few years back, and nobody was happy with the result except the guy who won it, i suppose, but yet it shows how messy democracy itself can be. and trying to create a democracy is going to be messy here. i think we've got a big story to cover in the future. i guess we're all too hopeful it was going to happen in a couple of days.
anyway, really sensitive reporting. thank you, sir. we're expecting a statement by president obama. joining me now is nicholas burns, veteran of the united states diplomat and professor at harvard's fabulous kennedy school of government. thank you so much. i've been listening to you for years. i've got great respect for your sense of history here. we're watching some kind of revolution in cairo, even a bloodless revolution which is a good thing. >> you're right. we're watching, because it's not just in this keystone country in egypt, it's throughout the arab world 37. what's been remarkable, as you know, you've seen, these protests have been largely peaceful for the last 17 days. there are people who want a better life, they want freedom, they want jobs, they want an end
to corruption. america needs to support that. i think president obama has done a very good job of saying i want with those people and i want that same kind of future. the difficulty comes, especially after mubarak's speech is how do you translate that emotion and that passion in the streets into political change. the demonstrators are not organized. they don't have a group of people who speak for them who can sit down in a conference room with omar suleiman and say here are our legitimate demands. we want to join a transitional government. i think that's the challenge now for the egyptians moving forward. how can we create an environment where the emotions can be put into play and hopefully something better will arrive at the end? >> a reality mixed with some kind of after dream of democracy, perhaps a constitution of some find, but in the end you get a republic.
and i think that's what most people want, a republic that represents the people ultimately. and my question is, you have a constitution over there that doesn't work. it's rigged for the government party. such as it is. you have to chain the constitution, you have to change the people in the transitional government, and you have actual political parties who can contend with the muslim brotherhood. do we play any role at all? >> chris, you're right. we can't expect any kind of immediate process. what's happened since 1952? three generals, nasr, sadat and mubarak have ruled egypt. people who stand up and say something different from the government are thrown in jail. right? the islamic parties are not
allowed to develop either. they've got to do a lot of different things at once, the egyptian people and opposition forces. they've got to organize a little better. they've got to see civil society take root and emerge. they've got to figure out what a practical reform would be and they've got to convince the government through people power on the street, but also through wit at the negotiating table to move forward. i think the big question is what does mubarak's statement mean? it was ambiguous, confusing. if he's handing off power, will it fw just some different people on the top? or are they going to feel the political pressure and open up the travrns situation process to new ideas, new faces like the foreign minister, now at the arab league.
elbaradei. we've heard from them this week. i suspect the government is going to try to close, delay and resist reform. i imagine the drama will continue on the streets and in the back rooms of cairo. >> do you believe we should offer asylum to mubarak? >> i don't know if he's asked for it. >> should we extend it to him? should we offer him safe passage to the united states, offer pass saj to him and his family. would that relieve this horror story when it ended? >> i'm not sure. it would. do you know what happened when the shah of iran lost power. he eventually made his way to the united states. that was a very difficult period
period with the new government. i would say this, chris, hosni mubarak has lost the streets. he's lost credibility at home and internationally. i don't expect him to come back to power. i think this was a face-saving announcement, you know, he was trying to save a little pride, an 82-year-old at the end of power. i think it's best if president mubarak stays in the middle east because here's what president obama needs to do. he's got to juggle these competing priorities. he does need to stand for reform, he, being president obama. and on the other hand, he needs to work quietly behind the scene s using the relationship to push this process towards reform. i think if president mubarak were to come to the united states, the image would be that the united states was anti-reform. of.
>> wow. thanks for coming on. i said history was stuck in the door and it is. it's a tough night to report the news because the news is still happening. who's in charge in egypt tonight? we'll get another live report fra cairo with the protesters in tahrir square. we'll go straight to that sound and fury over there tonight. [ female announcer ] fact: the medicine in children's advil® is the #1 pediatrician recommended pain reliever for children. plus, children's advil® brings fever down faster than children's tylenol®. choose children's advil®. relief you can trust. choose children's advil®. but you can still refinance to a fixed rate as low as 4.5% at lendingtree.com, where customers save an average of $293 a month. call lendingtree today. [ male announcer ] you know her. ♪ hey, what you do to me
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we're listening to the crowd over there around you. and it's an arresting sound these last few weeks. the sound of the people. where is this headed tonight? what are the feelings you're hearing tonight about the failure of hosni mubarak to get the message, that he has to go and really go and not just faek it by giving it to his hav.p.? >> well, just a few hours ago there was electricity in the air. i've been here every day since the protesters here took to the square. when hosni mubarak began his speech, you could hear a pin drop. i've never heard a crowd so big become so quiet. everyone was straining to hear his voice over the crackle of the loud speakers. when the speech ended, it was clear he wasn't going to leave. people were enraged. many hundreds took off one shoe and held it in the air in
disgust towards the speech. then aimmediately began chanting "leave, leave." and it has been the slogan of this uprising, calling for the fall of this regime. the people demanding the fall of this regime. that's their slogan. while numt bers have now anyotht somewhat, i can only imagine what tomorrow will bring. tomorrow will be the biggest demonstration in the streets of cairo. not only in tahrir, but all over cairo. they want to make the very earth shake with their feet, because every time this regime refuses to give them any of their demand -- they keep saying they're giving concessions. the regime keeps claiming that i ear giving concessions, but they have not conceded to any of the demands of the protesters, not one. and so each time it seems the numbers just continue to swell.
and that seems to -- that's what i'm seeing here on the ground. >> it seems like there's a number of demands in that crowd buried in the excitement. one demand is that he leave the country, that he become an exile. the other is he return over the power of his regime completely, perhaps through the military. what demand would be satisfactory? in other words, if he left the country, turned it over to the army, would that be enough to say we've won? it's over? >> i don't think it's over, but certainly for him to step down is the number one request of this uprising. it's the jew that holds all these different strands of society together. they're calling for his removal. whether he calls it over to the vice president or not, what they
want is for him to step down. there's a longer struggle people see here calling for a real parliament. they're calling for dissolution of the parliament, for all jailed protesters to be freed. they're calling for many things. but the first obstacle they see in their way is hosni mubarak and they want him to step down. tonight's speech, he did not do that and they were expecting him to. they thought he was going to and many people filled tahrir, really to the brim. the day before this mass uprising. usually there's a bit of a lull before one of these big gathering, but it was absolutely packed today. and he didn't do it. very disappointing for many people here and they have vowed to stay here until he does leave. >> you just saw a man there, a middle age guy pounding both sides of his forehead in frustration. i thought he did step down
today. i thought he did turn over his executive authority to his vice president. what did you hear, sharif? what did you hear him say? >> well, people are confused. they gave certain powers to the vice president, but he's still the president. he asked the parliament to consider amending one of the articles of the constitution. they didn't demand for him to appoint a vice president, which he did. they didn't demand for him to reshuffle his cabinet. to hand over certain powers to his vice president which is unclear exactly what that means. what they demanded is that he stepped down, that he resign. and he hasn't done that. there's no equivocation here. people are not pleased with the address today, also with the tone of his address, seeing how he has served the country for so long.
he cited deathses of 15 protesters when human rights organizations have said there have been 300 deaths. the people here are resolute, they're defiant and they continue to say every time that mubar mubarak, you know, slaps them in the face like this, is what they're telling me, they're going to come out stronger and in greater numbers. and we've seen organized labor join in the past few days. today i saw thousands of lawyers, street men and their lawyers in tahrir, i saw thousands of doctors come into tahrir, different segments of society are joining. it's simply growing. >> hang in there, sharif. we're joined by nicholas christo christoph. thank you for joining us. the question is, what does this all mean?
we were hoping something would move faster than the reporting. in fact, it barely caught up with the reporting. turns out, he turned over powers to his vice president, unspecific powers. he apparently hasn't actually given up the office of the presidency. what's your read on the fact right now about what's going on? >> to me, today's speech was simply a reminder of the way dictators have an amazing capacity to delude themselves into thinking they're indispe e indispensab indispensable. so transferring powers very vaguely to a vice president who's considered just like him, to think this would appease people and have the vice president come out and tell young people go home, don't watch satellite television, it came across to me as ultimately insulting to the intelligence of
the egyptian people in ways that -- if he was trying to quench the fire out there, he ended up pouring gasoline on top of it. >> you know, he was appealing with empathy to the crowd. i'm your daddy, daddy has been good to you. i'm proud of you for what you've done here, the demands you've made on me. i'm going to get the feel who hurt you, the police. is that delusional? >> it's completely delusional. there's complete mistrust of mubarak everywhere in the country. people have been watching satellite television, even quite poor families have aljazeera. they have access. they've been seeing people killed. then to have mubarak come out and say they feel sorry for these martyrs, i mean, this will have zero credibility with people out there. and indeed as he was speaking, you heard the shouts of "go, go" from the people.
so it just seemed to me a sad commentary on how out of touch he is and just how important it is for we in the united states to make sure we're betting on the future, and not on the past. >> well, let's try to -- i know your column is read -- these people like president obama say they don't read columns in "the new york times." i do believe they do read the times more than any other paper. republicans probably read the journal. your column matters. writing your column on the air right now, what would you prescribe for our president right now? >> we need to come out much more clearly on the side of people who were shot and not those doing the shooting. we've come across as extraordinarily wishy washy, tunisia and egypt. we said that the mubarak rejust a minute was stable and mubarak was trying to search for ways to relate to the egyptian people. and that -- that was delusional on our part.
throughout, except for a brief period when foreign reporters were being attacked, the people suffering by far the most are the egyptians, not the foreigners. he reemphasized the change now. but mostly we've been talking about a slow gradual process a transition. and i think that -- i watched in tahrir as people who should be our natural ally, the facebook generation have become increasingly irritated at the united states and feel to some degree betrayed that we are, as they see it, standing with their oppress sor and not with the people out there. >> let me ask you to be a reporter, not a commentator. give me a sense of the people in the streets there. you know, i met them, i always thought from the time i was in egypt back the first time in 1970, coming home from the peace corps and i lived there a couple of weeks. i was impressed with the number of people like us, in a sense,
the regular, middle class people like us who got a higher education, curious about the war like we were. they seemed to be friendly. they didn't really have any problem with us. they talked about studying samuelsson in economics in college and different exams we took and stuff. i felt a kinship with those people. are those the people in the streets? >> absolutely. i lived in egypt for a year so this was kind of a homecoming. the determination was just palpable. my favorite spot in tahrir was a little clinic. it was a mosque turned into a clinic. i saw a doctor there seeing protesters being attacked. he drew up his will and then drove there to help those who have been injury 37d i talked to one person who had been hospitalized seven times in 24 hours there by the attacks from mubarak thugs. each time he would be repaired and then totter off. he had a cast on one arm and a brace on his leg and he would go
off. i just thought that was the maximum possible human endura e endurance. i packed was taking a picture and backed up into a man in a wheelchair. he lost both of his legs and he went out there to throw rocks back at the pro-mubarak people. there's just one reason why i think we should be very clearically on their side and not on the side of suleiman and mubarak. >> the other thing is it's nationalist, it's very much a middle or working class group of people. it's american types, in a sense, without -- generalizing the way we look at things. we believe in societies where you can get ahead. it's not a fix about who your brother or father is. it's about maybe giving a chance if you work hard at school. the values that we subscribe to in modern america. it seems like they're seeking that. >> yeah, and i think that we have misled ourselves here by
turning the muslim brotherhood into a boogieman. and there are indeed real risks there. but most of the people, the things they object to are corruption. and mubarak appears to have a personal fortune equivalent to 37% of egyptian gnp. that's just applausing. >> that's a kleptocracy. they want a free press. they want freedoms like our own. >> it's a very sensitive and sensible, i think, people in the middle in our country should be looking at this the same way i am. coming up, what countries in the middle east are thinking about tonight. they're wondering a lot about what it means for them this is traveling, it's viesral, not ju virtual, but in the real world. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc.
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egypt, but absolutely, they're looking at him now and wondering what's going to come next. they're realizing how important he's been for him. and that peace treaty, which he's kept secure for the last 30 years is the big issue here. >> i know looking into his heart, in his heart he's a father of egypt, a modern day fay roe. he's protective of their weaknesses, disciplining them if they get too far out of hand, punishing them if they break his rules or question his rule, but what do you think leads him to do what he's done? power? or is there some vision that he has? >> i think the vision disappeared a long time ago, chris. it's not only hosni mubarak. i was listening to the guest you had on the last 20 minutes.
the issue of mubarak, the man refusing to give up power, be out of touch with his people, not understanding the future, where the united states should be with the future, rather than protecting the past. i don't want to say we're missing point, but nothing president mubarak said today to the people of egypt did he say without the approval of the army chiefs behind him. there's no way he went off on a tangent by himself, expressing his own opinion. hosni mubarak was expressing the opinions of the army leadership who clearly are behind him. i think that's very important to understand. he's been in power for 30 years because he's the representative of the army. all four leaders of egypt have
come from the military. he's speaking for the military. the fact that he's demanding to stay in pow -- we don't know at this stage what's happened in the back rooms of the presidential palace. when he delayed his speech this evening, we don't know why he did that. probably he was coming to some final terms of agreement with omar suleiman with the vice president and the army. clearly he's hanging on to power. he has said he will step down in september. >> back in '70 when sadat came in and began the transition to a western-aligned country. then in the dramatic steps in '78 towards peace, yom kippur
war, that was a decision made at the military level in egypt. they decided to go western and cut a peace treaty in israel. do they represent the people of egypt when they do this? or are the people way behind them in terms of their willingness to be pro western and pro israeli enough to cut a deal with them? >> there's no doubt the egyptian people are uncomfortable indeed with the peace treaty with egypt. but the leadership of jordan and the leadership of egypt see the peace treaty with israel as something very important to them, otherwise they wouldn't have made that agreement. that led to a great economic boom in egypt as it led to an economic boom in israel. at the time when the peace treaty was signed with egypt, israel's defense budget was 23% of its gross national product. 23% of israel's budget went on military expenditure.
this day it's down to 8% or 9%. that's a boost for israel and egypt. there's tremendous interest to keep the peace treatly alive. the big fear, of course, is that if there are, indeed, real fair and free elections in egypt, that will probably lead to an increased real role by the muslim brotherhood in egypt's government. very unlikely the muslim brotherhood would take over in egypt. almost no chance at all, but still they would have a major say in government presumably. and the peace treaty with israel would be one of the key issues. so the israelis obviously very concerned about that. they don't expect that suddenly the new government of egypt is going to end the peace treaty with israel. but they are worried it will become weaker. there will be weak points in thatch agreement. the jeing becomes, will they need to change their military strategy?
indeed its budget, the defense expenditure to take into account this changing defense need on the southern border. the peace that they brought israel was very important to israel. and it changed the form, the strategy of its army. if the muslim brotherhood are part of the egyptian government and it becomes a question on the southern border, israel would have to change its military strategy, spend more money on defense, become probably a larger army than it is today. so there's great considerations at stake here, chris. >> a lot of people who watch this show have a deep felt feeling for egypt. if egypt goes a bit more radical and stops being our friend and perhaps jordan becomes a little bit more questionable as ally, it's better for israel. the united states will clearly focus on israel as the only
democracy in middle east, it would be its best friend without any complication. that to me sounded like a very strained argument, a difficult argument to win. does anybody believe that? that egypt has fallen or may fall as an ally? >> that argument basically takes into account consideration if there are free elections in egypt, jordan and other countries, they, of course, had the peace agreements, the only arab peace agreements with israel. if there's true think a democratic government elected in those countries, that democra democracies go to war, it will be in the interest to maintain a peace agreement with israel and democracies don't go to war so there will be peace. it's a bit of a stretch when you live in this small country to hope to assume that a democracy which may bring the muslim brotherhood to power will
actually be good and lead to peace. by the way, it doesn't mean it's not true. if there's a real democracy, it will be harder to make war with israel. but the popularity of the peace agreement in egypt and jordan is very, very iffy. it's slim. the people in general are not in favor of the peace agreement. but on the other hand, that doesn't mean they want therefore war with israel. >> they may want an even chillier peace. >> they probably want it both ways. >> thank you for your point of view from tel aviv. you know that country better than anyone. coming up, what the white house and the president are thinking tonight. apparently mubarak's speech wasn't what they were hoping for. you know, change they could believe in. they were hoping for that tonight and they didn't get it.
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of. >> we are not a satellite state, followers to others being dictated orders from ores. we shape our own decisions according to the pulse and demands of the people. we will prove all this by the spirit and resolve of the egypti egyptians. >> that's egyptian president, still president hosni mubarak taking a not so vailed swipe at this country. what do the people in the white house think about mubarak's moves today? joining me now is chuck todd. also is isham melham. it seems that was a very
dispirting speech for us. it leaves history stuck in the door over there. >> not only that, it was dispirting for president obama. he went out, he was traveling today in marquette, michigan. he went out before his remarks, something on his budget, expanding wireless. he said we're watching history unfold. dropping the hint, you know, almost playing to the crowds almost and all of the reports saying looks like mubarak is going to go. he didn't get ahead of the news, but you could hear the optimism in his language. then he watches mubarak's speech on air force one. these guys have been behind closed doors for three hours since he landed. they're trying to come up with a written statement at this point. we're not going to see president obama on camera. because as one official said, we've got to word this carefully. this is not what they expected. you had leon panetta testifying
on capitol hill. they all believed mubarak was going in some form. they don't believe that's what happened tonight. now they're trying to scramble and figure it out. we know that vice president biden and vice president suleiman talk a lot. no one will confirm they talked today, but it's clear they did. >> according to the white house point of view, who is president of egypt right now? >> right now, they want to believe that suleiman is in charge. that would be the thing to expect in the statement. everything in the last 72 hours has been every time suleiman has said something about the reform process, we always want to move the bar. think oof it as when you're
teaching your kid to swim, they back a little bit further. they've been hoping to develop this trust and this relationship and say okay, keep coming, keep going. you said you're going to meet with some opposition leaders? meet with all of them. you say you're going to come with some plan of reform? jointly release that statement. obviously a little bit of a french in the plans on one hand. on the other hand, expect them to get a little bit optimistic about what suleiman said he would do, because that might be the only choice they have diplomatically tonight. >> who do you think is president of egypt right now? >> mubarak and his cronies. look, i mean, all of these people belong to the military institution. it's the military establishment. four presidents, four generals. and now suleiman who was also in the army and has a checkered history as a security guy. and today what you've seen from
both speeches is that the regime is circling the wagon in preparation with not only those behind the uprising but also the united states. today they are raising the specter of foreign intervention and the specter of chaos. and the message was clear. mubarak was not only defiant, but petulant and indignant, because some of his people are criticizing him. he said it, h he was the patriarch of egypt. he projected himself as the patriarch and savior of egypt. and he still lives in denial, insulated and isolated like those generals who inhabit the novels of gabrielle marquez. i was waiting for an interview with secretary clinton from 10:00 in the morning till 5:30 in the afternoon, and it was destroyed because of mubarak's speech. they are disheartened at the
state department. i think one of the reasons, i think chuck will corroborate this, the administration is extremely concerned because of the attack today on foreign intervention and a foreign dictator and all that. they don't want to do anything and they are not going to stay something that could be construed or abused or exploited by those people in egypt who would like to blame the united states and the foreigners for what's taking place. that's why they're going to choose their words extremely carefully. that's why we did not have an interview with secretary clinton today. >> what are they worried about putting their language together right now? >> well look, we do know that yesterday, president obama and the king of saudi arabia did have a very testy conversation about the situation with mubarak. some of the reports about what the king said don't quite were not corroborated by folks here, but they did admit there were obviously some disagreements
there. so at this point, they really are trying to close ranks here. at one point, chris, about an hour ago, we couldn't find a press agent here at the white house. andrea mitchell couldn't find anybody at the state department. jim miklaszewski was struggling to find anybody at the state department. the administration realizes they have to make sure every part of the national security team is speaking with one voice because they're having separate conversations. military to military between the pentagon and the egyptian army. you have the state department contacts, and of course, you have the vice president side of thing, vice president pied biden and suleiman. now they're just being extra careful. anything they say now is going to get parsed, reparsed and repackaged in a way that could be farmful to our diplomacy. that's what they're all fearful of now and this is why we don't have the statement. it's been an hour that we were
told we would get a statement and we still don't have it. >> thank you. coming up, back to tahrir square as the demonstrators continue to protest late into the night. hosni mubarak says he relinquished a lot of his powers to his v.p., but he's still there. he says he didn't stepping down and they're not happy. they're coming. seems like from every wireless carrier. you may have heard them already. the doubt-casting. the empty comparisons. while they shout them at the top of their lungs... to try to blur the lines. in the end, just ask yourself, does the network work ? this is america's largest and most reliable network. verizon. built so you can rule the air.
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obviously, there was a sense of absolute rage in the immediate aftermath of the speech. people surged out of the square tot point where we were worried about instant violence. they moved in a mass to the radio and tv building, which is heavily fortified with tanks and armored personnel chark ferps and several hundred of them just hung out there and vowed to remain there through the night. but it was largely peaceful. everybody else said well, let's go home and come back tomorrow because obviously tomorrow, they're expecting massive, massive demonstrations to start at a series of mosques around the city and make their way to other, as yet unknown locations. possibly including the radio and tv building again, and the presidential palace and become to tahrir square. but a very large group remains in fatahrir square.
i would say there were dozens and dozens of young men arriving, not leaving. the mood inside of the square, music started up again, a couple of speeches. people were kind of sitting down and smiling and drinking sodas. a few were kind of clapping and singing the national anthem. and i think people appear to be ready to regroup, talk, think and wait for what could be a really interesting day tomorrow. >> they're molding their shoes up with the sole facing forward. what does that mean? what's that message in the idiom over there? >> it's one of the most extreme signs of disrespect that you can show. and we all remember that from the shoe in iraq that the thrown
as president bush. >> oh, yeah. right. . >> it means we don't like what you're saying. of. >> was there something that could have been said today that could have fed the euphoria? has anybody form lated what it is they want today? i know that will change in a week. but right now, i keep getting different answers. one says leave the country, mubarak. another says throw out your regime, turn it over to the army, perhaps. or give it up to everything, turn it over to the streets. what would possibly satisfy the main body of people we're looking at right now in the streets? >> that's even. a problem from the beginning. there isn't a main leadership. they're starting to form a committee with